The full transcript

Stephen May

Okay, Ray. Good morning! Welcome to the Devico Breakfast Bar! Great to have you here today. Perhaps before we start, could you just kind of tell us who you are and what your current role is?

Ray Alde

My name is Ray Alde. I'm the CTO of Arklign, we’re a company out in the dental industry that's fabricating prosthetics and just trying to change an old industry into some new ways or innovative ways of working together.

Stephen May

Okay, interesting. Well, listen what we'd like to do perhaps is just find out a little bit about you, how you got to where you are today. Just talk to us a little bit about your journey that took you to your current role.

Ray Alde

Yeah, I mean just like most people who are maybe in the technical industry I studied electrical engineering throughout college, thinking it means to build a house, but I realized as I got to college like “Oh there's more to it than just being an electrician, right?”. But luckily as I went through the process I had an opportunity to work in the aerospace or the space industry as a power electronics engineer. So, somewhat I was still stuck in power, but was able to work on satellites and power electronics.

Then I had an opportunity to go to consumer industry and that's when I became an engineering program manager for Apple in their touch display. And this was back then when the iPhone first launched, you know, out there so that was a very unique and great experience of really learning how to develop new technology at scale.

Then after that, I had the opportunity to join Tesla pre, you know, model S launch. So that was great, really, from nothing to something experience of building, you know, new technology that doesn't exist and then being able to put it out in production.

Then after that, after realizing like “Man, I've got great experience in the past and pushing it for all these, you know, successful companies”, a church brother of mine decided or asked me for help, you know, just to help in the industry. And back then, the dental industry was transitioning into leveraging a lot of technologies that in a way I’ve used at the other companies.

You know, like 3D printing, intraoral, digital workflows, you know, all this stuff. And in the dental was that very new back then. So, he said: “Hey, can you help me out?”. And what's started with just a friend helping, a friend out, turned into “Hey, let me. I see a vision. I see a lot of potential and let's go spin off this, you know, company that will help attack some of the problems that are in the industry”.

Stephen May

Wow, Really interesting journey. Very diverse. Thank you. When you think about your role and the things you've been doing, what would you say you're truly passionate about?

Ray Alde

I think it's really, you know, what I found out from working from company to company. It was really working on a problem or a complex problem that doesn't have a solution you know. And it's working with very smart people around that will help us come together. You know, it's not something I can just google or say: “Hey, there's an answer to that solution”. We really have to kind of go step by step and go through that process of figuring things out as we hit each problem.

Stephen May

Okay. I’m very interested in your background and the things you've done, but tell us probably what you feel is your most important accomplishment as a technical leader in your space.

Ray Alde

I think it really is where my current role is right now. Well, like I said I was in the dental industry and if you noticed, my background was a lot in hardware. But this was an opportunity where when we saw the need we realized that we needed to develop a software platform that can help monitor and keep the relationship between our dental lab and the dentists, who are customers, and solve a lot of these pain points.

And how do we make it more fluid, more streamlined? So, not knowing anything about software development I decided to just give it a try. You know, there was a need and there's that problem there. And so, being able to launch this platform and being successful as it is today. I don't think I can top that.

Stephen May

And would you be able to summarize for us what challenges you faced, you really think you faced? And how you may have overcome those key challenges? Right?

Ray Alde

What you take for granted is that you think everybody loves technology or that, oh yeah, of course, people will use software. But when I got into dentistry, I realized that in the, you know, I guess dental world of what I heard also the medical world, using technology is not easily adopted. And this was back in twenty fifteen. It wasn't something they liked. They actually feared it. So if you said: “Hey, I'm going to put this software in front of you”, or you could tell it all the great features but they'll immediately say: “No, I don't want to use it without even trying”.

But then, it's funny when they say that, but then all of a sudden, after you've done talking to them, they'll pull out their phone, and then they'll go on their phone, and they'll either go on social media, or they'll check their email or something with their phone. And so back then we realized “Wow. Well, they say they don't, you know, they don't want to touch technology, but then they're also using it every day”.

So, then we start to understand and go “Well, how could we develop a software platform that will look familiar and the experience and the feel of a mobile app but on their desktop?”. And so back then, that was a unique challenge that we had to have, and on top of all the other feature sets like normal that will solve a lot of these pain points that are between us and our customer.

Stephen May

Thanks, Ray. You faced some significant challenges and you do have a really wide variety of experiences. In a vastly changing quick-moving landscape, I think, in our space, how do you keep up to date with the latest changes within the technology?

Ray Alde

I've subscribed to numerous email newsletters that come out. And it ranges from actually looking a lot on venture capital news. Because a lot of times they're the ones that are almost investing in the forefront of what's coming up. So yes, you can, yes, I do all the other tech newsletters that are out there that just specifically talk about technology that exists, but if you want to know what's to come, you actually should pay attention to the venture capital news. And I think that's where I got. And one of the key ones, I think it's called Launch, I can't recall who does that, but they consistently show me what new companies are coming around.

Stephen May

Interesting. Thank you. And I'm thinking in terms of efficiency in teams and the importance of that, what tools do you usually use as a technical leader to drive that efficiency in your teams?

Ray Alde

Yeah, I'm big about program management, so a lot of key program management tools. Currently, our company is built around the Power, Microsoft Power platform. We use planners for our company and then specifically with the developers we use Jira.

Stephen May

And obviously, lots of new technologies are always being introduced to help us in this space. Do you find yourself drawn to new technologies or find yourself leaning towards some of the more time-tested solutions?

Ray Alde

I think one of the fun parts about being a small company and starting off in some way, have some ignorance. In space, I don't have a lot of resources. So I'm always looking for new technology that has the features or the capabilities as some of these time test proven technologies but of course at a lower cost, and I have more value.

So everything I'm picking actually as I utilize at my company, I'm always measuring it to that. A lot of times I don't use the proven bigger technologies. I'm always using in some ways the newer ones because they're attacking almost similar problems but in a different way. So that's what's fun.

Stephen May

And I guess in terms of your own business then, within that context, are there any areas where you feel the company could do better through the use of technology?

Ray Alde

Yeah, I think what's huge now is automation. Right? And really leveraging AI in an applicable way. And so that's where I'm looking closely a lot on is because we don't have a lot of resources and we're always trying to do more with less. I'm consistently looking at ways of how we automate the mundane tasks or, in some ways, even the complicated tasks. And watching closely how AI like Chat GPT or other ones that are launched out how are those being applied. I'm also looking into applying that as well in our company.

Stephen May

Thank you. I'm going kind of move into the space of people's skills and getting hold of those skills. How difficult are you finding it to get a good specialist these days?

Ray Alde

Yeah, I think it's very challenging. You know, I think with Covid and everything, people started to maybe think differently. Before I'm always used to, like I said, I worked at Apple and Tesla, so I'm very used to working around people who are passionate and work hard. And their specialist didn't exist. But then you have to put your time and effort to become that specialist. What I'm meeting now or seeing is that the generation or people out there, nobody. I wouldn't say nobody, I say it's very difficult to find people that want to put that extra effort or in some ways want to be specialists.

You know, people just like “Hey, I want my foot in there” or “I want to know about this thing”. But what my definition of specialists is you can make anything happen. Like you can create something out of nothing that doesn't exist. You know, especially what we're doing in our industry. We have to build something that is not, it doesn't exist. So a specialist allows you to kind of attack the problem and solve it, you know, that way. And so, I find it difficult to find.

Stephen May

Is there a particular skill set specialist that you're kind of leaning towards at the moment with your project?

Ray Alde

Yeah. Good question. I think, currently, I am looking for somebody who knows how to develop machine learning models or AI models. I think that's a big one that I'm looking around. But also not just code, but also a combination of understanding the business case around that. So there's a niche that I'm trying to look for.

Stephen May

And thinking about those developers out there that want to get into these types of opportunities, what would you advise them based on your experience of the type of development that they should focus on to expand their skills?

Ray Alde

Well, I think there's, of course, you know, you can always learn the latest code technology that's out there and you can follow the trend that will keep you updated on that side, but honestly, all developers can do that. So, what can differentiate yourself, right, over the others? I think one of the key things, as I was working with developers, is if you can understand a little more of the UX/UI design process.

Because especially if you are working with customers that maybe aren't as technical or don't have a very clean process in giving you requirements, they kind of lean on developers to play that role a little bit. And they may give you requirements or things that they want done, but you can't take it for face value and go “Okay, that's what you need. Let me go and let me go make it”. You kind of have to process what this person actually wants at the end because you could be wasting a lot of your time.

I was guilty of that early on where I said: “Hey I want to do this or this and all this stuff” and without, you know, a developer that goes “Hold on, from a user experience standpoint that” you know, and will challenge you to go “Wait, did you really mean this?” or “Hey, we have some suggestions”. That back and forth from a developer is huge. And I think that's ultimately what will make a different software platform out there from others. That just “Listen to, okay, requirements, okay, let me just build that feature”, you know, without seeing, without having that bigger picture of it all.

Stephen May

Thanks, Ray. And I was hearing from you when we talked about the skills that developers might want to develop. It was very much some of that behavioral stuff that was challenging and pushing back and taking it from a UX perspective and UI. What other interpersonal skills do you think it's important for people to develop in addition to technical focus as a developer?

Ray Alde

Well, definitely, communication is huge, you know, and especially if you have a remote development team. It's a lot of your communication is going to be with your program management tool that you use. And of course, maybe your daily standups or your meetings. But you're not sitting there side by side all the time, you know, where you're always around. So, definitely communication and not just “Oh, I speak well, and I can use words, and you understand” but again, I think it falls along to me similar to that UIs where you're processing what the customer is asking or the person asking you to develop. You are not just listening, you're not just taking face value, but you're actually moving to level two, to level three of what that really means. So, when you are communicating back to that customer or that person that's asking to develop, you're on point and you are on that same page. And without that, there's gonna be a lot of frustrations. “Hey, I thought I said this to you but then you didn't”. And then you're like “No, I followed your exact words”, but a lot of that is “But that's not what I meant”. And then you're at a point where you're like “Oh, this won't work”. And then frustration happens.

Stephen May

I'd like to move the conversation towards the use of outsourcing and how that's helped you in some of your projects. You have mentioned before around what your current role is about but I thought just to position if you could remind us exactly what's going on within your project right now. And then we can lead into how outsourcing within that context has helped.

Ray Alde

So, like I said, my biggest accomplishment was launching the Arklign platform, and outsourcing was huge in that because we didn't have any software developers in-house. And like I said before, I didn't know anything about software development. So I had to get expertise outside of my current company. And I thought about hiring, if I hired on, what would it take? But to be honest, I didn't even know who to hire, what skill sets to hire. And so, our platform was unique where we could not get any off-the-shelf software tools like ERP and then adapt it.

Because we were trying to develop a workflow and an experience of the customer that's unique and solves the problem. And so I needed a strong technical team that understands how to build software, good software, and a high performer. And like I said, this industry people want to use what's in the mobile app. And why do people like mobile app? Why? Because it's fast, it's easy, it's simple. You don't see spinning. And back then we were like every software in the dental industry had spinning wheels. So everyone will get flushed and go: “Okay, I gotta. I click and I gotta wait.”

So I was sitting and going “No, no, no. I want, I need development like my phone. Who can do that?”. And I didn't know anybody that can. Luckily I had a friend that referred me to a company, you know, Devico, and said: “Hey, here's some software developers that may be able to handle it, and they have experience, you know, building mobile apps. And they can, they understand, they can leverage some technologies that maybe help you”. And so that's when I reached out and was able to work with Devico on our software platform.

Stephen May

Okay, and if you were to reflect and to say to anybody: “These might be the three key benefits of outsourcing”, if it was three, what would you say they are from your experience?

Ray Alde

Well, I think there is definitely access to talent. Like most recently we realize that our volume of users increased rapidly. And we realize that all the architecture that we currently have can't handle this volume we're gonna, or future volume that we predict is coming. We need to almost restructure and find a DevOps - person. And again, yeah, I could sit there and I can hire, and I can look, but we had to move quickly, because our site was actually failing.

And we, yes, we made adjustments to have it handled but it's not a sustainable solution. So, we had to move quickly, right? So it was great because almost immediately after you know asking Devico to say: “Hey, do you guys have a DevOps person?”. I think they were able to hire and spin around a person just within a month if not a few weeks. And they found a really good guy that I don't think I know a guy like that, you know, where I, you know, around me. So I definitely think access to talent is huge.

I think the other one is a predictable budget. Like I said, we have to do a lot with small resources, and we’re a small company. And almost every time, you know, software development is not a key feature of our company. We sell prosthetics and we sell experience. Although software development is a huge part of our success, it's a cost. Right? And so, constantly I have to deal with budgets and estimates of how much it is going to cost as we go. So, that predictable budgeting and scalability is huge.

And then third, I think if you can find one with a good program management, and I have, you know, my team has a good strong program manager that allows me to not have to stress about the details, and I can relay what I want and what's needed through that key person, that makes my job a lot easier. I'm not sitting there having to manage a team of six or seven developers, I could just work with one key point of contact, and then that person is responsible for managing that team and making sure we're meeting goals and schedule.

Stephen May

Okay, thanks. I think we're all experienced enough to know that with every business solution, there are pros and cons, right? From the context of outsourcing, what would you say are some of the drawbacks but how do we manage those?

Ray Alde

Well, I definitely, like I said, my point of contact, maybe that one program manager, but I think one of the drawbacks is not having them because they're just not around, you know, inside your company. Definitely, the personal relationships. And knowing me personally, and the team, and the company around, I feel like it is a drawback or could be, you know, is hesitant because you also wonder: “Because they're not part of the company, how much do they care about what they're building and what they're doing?”. You wondered that.

I’m always asking my program manager, “Hey, how's the guys feeling?”. Because I don't know. I'm not, I don't, I can't have coffee talk or I can't talk to them. But I haven't felt that they didn't care. You know it's just “O, do they?”. You don't know. But as you converse, and one of the things I offset that is I flew out there to meet the development team and met them personally, and able to talk as I meet. So, I think, you wouldn’t cause me to have more personal visits, you know, and travel to be there. I planned to travel again, hopefully soon. Just to kind of build that relationship back again. I think that's one of the key things. I think the other challenge that I'm watching very closely is that the US right now gives a lot of R&D tax incentives to companies when you start reaching a certain scale.

So as you know, as the cost of outsourcing may rise, there's something that you have to balance. So, that is why I outsource, because when you outsource you don't get that tax credit, but if you hire within your company, they give you that. So, right now I'm facing that challenge of “Hey, you know, what's your cost?” and “Hey, if that was in-house, is that more or less that when we get R&D tax credit from that?”. That's actually happened most recently. I never really knew that until of course, as your company grows and scales a lot of those things come about. So, I think, that's the challenge, I think, people are gonna have to offset and see.

Stephen May

Thanks. And, you know, choosing a partner to outsource with, it's a very competitive landscape. There are a number of people doing that. I wonder when you decided to choose Devico, had you looked at other organizations and was there a differentiator for you as to why you chose the Devico partnership?

Ray Alde

Yeah, I did actually. I looked at two other firms and I went to scale. I said: “Okay, let me, give me the big name firm”. And actually, that was the relationship of a friend, and I said: “Okay, let me talk to them”. And then I also went to “Okay, let me find the cheapest solution and let me see what they offer”. And I think one of the things that caught me to go with Devico was the value.

I think at the end of the day I don't know if you necessarily have to go to the most expensive person where you just feel like the team or the way they work or what they need is almost cumbersome. You know, where it's like “Do you really need that much?”. And you start to realize as you talk to them, they want to throw in all these things that you don't realize: “Wait, does my company at this scale need?”. Right?

And then you have the cheaper solution where yeah you just got a bunch of developers. And then you wonder if they have those skills that you mentioned, those soft skills like hey are they going to be able to process? Do they think more than just “Oh, I'm going to code”? And why I went with Devico was meeting the team, meeting the Technical Lead, and the Program Manager. I think, when you meet both of them, you know, at any firm, I think you gotta meet the direct team that will work with you. I saw that they had it all. They had the level of program management and organization, you know, that you need to be successful.

But what I liked the most is when I was talking about my platform, you know, with my little knowledge I was researching and said: “Hey, we should do this, or we should have all these things, and oh for redundancy and security, and.” I was throwing all this stuff. The program manager stopped me, and the second guy goes: "Hey, hey, hey. You don't need all of that yet because that's gonna cost you a lot. Let's start smaller and we will build up to that".

And I felt that, okay, they can take my lack of knowledge of software development, and I can trust that they will be able to produce something of value. You know, where they're not just out there just to make money and hours, you know, to get from the project, but they really wanted our company to be successful. And, honestly, I think without that mindset we wouldn't be where we are today. So, I'm definitely grateful that I went with Devico.

Stephen May

Ray, thanks for that. I mean, you seem to have some really good experiences. There will be people, other CTOs, who may not yet have considered outsourcing or may be on the verge of considering that. What advice would you give to anybody that's about to step into considering an outsourcing partnership?

Ray Alde

Your experience of your outsourcing is going to directly reflect on the people that you're outsourcing to or your team that you're working directly with. So that's very hard to kind of do, you know, without a proof of concept. So that's what we did. I said, “I don't know. Are these the right people? Well, I like the people. Hey, they say the right things, but let's go to a proof of concept, and let's see how we work together with that proof of concept.” And I think that's what won me over because I got to really see their technical ability. I really got to see how quickly they operate and how organized they run. And if their culture and our company culture matches, I think that's key. And that's what was huge.

Stephen May

Listen, Ray, it's been fascinating talking to you, and thanks for such full answers. I'd like to say thanks very much for coming on The Breakfast Bar and talking to us, and that will be a wrap.

Ray Alde

Alright. Thank you.